Regarding capital punishment

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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby C'mon » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:04 pm

It's nice to see teenagers able to discuss and argue their points so well. Just don't carry the weight of the world all of the time...take time to be a teenager now 'cause the rest will still be available to be carried later.
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby suicide_turtle » Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:57 am

Okay, you're really not paying attention to what I'm saying in the very arguments you are part of (see the prison argument). You're right, the death penalty is NOT a deterrent but that's what I said in the fucking first place. Read my post again asshole. You have basically backed up my points but with the reverse claims. Yes it is true, they should not murder again but to kill them because they have killed? It creates an ugly cycle in which the whole country end up murderers. And what does me being a vegetarian have anything to do with killing a human being? I'm not a cannibal you idiot. I'm not a hippy, pot smoking motherfucker either. I'm just someone who validates the claim that: IT IS NEVER MORALLY RIGHT TO KILL A HUMAN BEING!


Wow. Personal insults now huh? I asked if you were naieve and simple which you could have easily said "no I'm not" and that would have been that. Two points for me for getting you angry without even trying. Damn I'm good...W00t!

It creates an ugly cycle in which the whole country end up murderers.


Too late for that shit pal. It has been happening since the dawn of humankind. Get over it.

The reason I asked if you were a vegetarian is an easy one. Most vegetarians don't eat meat because of some idea that killing and eating animals is also murder. Yet those same vegetarians will murder a human fetus when it is inconvenient to their lifestyle. Instead of answering that one as well you dropped some lame "I'm not a cannibal" quip. Cannibalism has nothing to do with veganism so I'm at a complete loss on that statement.

I was merely trying to determine if you were a complete hipocrit or just a partial one.

I'm not a hippy, pot smoking motherfucker either.


I'm really not sure where that came from as I never mentioned anything about pot smoking to you or said you were a hippy.
I'll forgive you this time.

IT IS NEVER MORALLY RIGHT TO KILL A HUMAN BEING!

Now there is the root of the conversation. Morals. Those are a tricky subject. However it appears you believe everyone should have the same morals as you. Fortunately for me it doesn't work that way and I have my own set that work out just fine in my world.

Hope this helps clarify what you missed during the schoolyard name calling session.
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby damostat » Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:04 am

suicide_turtle wrote:
Okay, you're really not paying attention to what I'm saying in the very arguments you are part of (see the prison argument). You're right, the death penalty is NOT a deterrent but that's what I said in the fucking first place. Read my post again asshole. You have basically backed up my points but with the reverse claims. Yes it is true, they should not murder again but to kill them because they have killed? It creates an ugly cycle in which the whole country end up murderers. And what does me being a vegetarian have anything to do with killing a human being? I'm not a cannibal you idiot. I'm not a hippy, pot smoking motherfucker either. I'm just someone who validates the claim that: IT IS NEVER MORALLY RIGHT TO KILL A HUMAN BEING!


Wow. Personal insults now huh? I asked if you were naieve and simple which you could have easily said "no I'm not" and that would have been that. Two points for me for getting you angry without even trying. Damn I'm good...W00t!

It creates an ugly cycle in which the whole country end up murderers.


Too late for that shit pal. It has been happening since the dawn of humankind. Get over it.

The reason I asked if you were a vegetarian is an easy one. Most vegetarians don't eat meat because of some idea that killing and eating animals is also murder. Yet those same vegetarians will murder a human fetus when it is inconvenient to their lifestyle. Instead of answering that one as well you dropped some lame "I'm not a cannibal" quip. Cannibalism has nothing to do with veganism so I'm at a complete loss on that statement.

I was merely trying to determine if you were a complete hipocrit or just a partial one.

I'm not a hippy, pot smoking motherfucker either.


I'm really not sure where that came from as I never mentioned anything about pot smoking to you or said you were a hippy.
I'll forgive you this time.

IT IS NEVER MORALLY RIGHT TO KILL A HUMAN BEING!

Now there is the root of the conversation. Morals. Those are a tricky subject. However it appears you believe everyone should have the same morals as you. Fortunately for me it doesn't work that way and I have my own set that work out just fine in my world.

Hope this helps clarify what you missed during the schoolyard name calling session.

My apologies. At the time of that post I was in rather a questionable mood and therefore insulting. But there are a few little invalid arguments you are creating here. Now, first of all with my post of a country being killers, your natural response was "we've done it since the dawn of mankind". That leads me to believe that your immediate thought is "Now that we've started, we can't stop." That is not true in any case. Why stoop to the level of a criminal, just to get revenge or create "justice"? No really, I want to know. Why should we?

Like I said, I was in a very odd mood that day and my arguments might have been completely and totally irrelevant. I apologise once more. But I stand by my opinion. No matter what moral you have, I have or anybody else has, it is never morally right to kill a human being. Don't give me this crap about self defense as that is a different matter altogether. No, the death penalty is not self defense either so don't bother arguing it. And no, what you said really didn't clarify anything at all. Now, I am not trying to get everyone to believe in my morals, just realise that killing people in any sense of the word is just not right. I ask again, how exactly is it right? There has to be more of a reason than "He did it first."
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby Mike » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:09 pm

What if somebody anally raped your four year old daughter in front of you and then wiped their dick off on her teddy bear? Would you want to kill that person?
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby suicide_turtle » Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:28 pm

My apologies. At the time of that post I was in rather a questionable mood and therefore insulting. But there are a few little invalid arguments you are creating here. Now, first of all with my post of a country being killers, your natural response was "we've done it since the dawn of mankind". That leads me to believe that your immediate thought is "Now that we've started, we can't stop." That is not true in any case. Why stoop to the level of a criminal, just to get revenge or create "justice"? No really, I want to know. Why should we?

Like I said, I was in a very odd mood that day and my arguments might have been completely and totally irrelevant. I apologise once more. But I stand by my opinion. No matter what moral you have, I have or anybody else has, it is never morally right to kill a human being. Don't give me this crap about self defense as that is a different matter altogether. No, the death penalty is not self defense either so don't bother arguing it. And no, what you said really didn't clarify anything at all. Now, I am not trying to get everyone to believe in my morals, just realise that killing people in any sense of the word is just not right. I ask again, how exactly is it right? There has to be more of a reason than "He did it first."


There is no solution to this issue and there never will be. As long as humans populate the earth there will be killing.
You can lump it for all I care because it will continue no matter what. It is biological nature in humans to kill each other for stupid reasons.
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby C'mon » Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:30 am

Since you are so completely against the form of justice that I personally would prefer exactly what is the affective alternative that you offer? Simply warehousing and caring for the "convicted" isn't a valid response either because obviously it does not work. What else should be done? Here's an example subject for you to deal with (totally hypothetical)...a serial pedophile rapist that dismembers his victims...he has been on a 10 year "spree" of this activity...witnesses can place him with some of his victims of which there is no less than 18...DNA evidence is conclusive in half of those cases...other evidence such as his weapons and victims' clothing had been found hidden in his home...his latest victim, a 10 year old girl, escaped and has identified him...he was her school teacher...he shot at law enforcement as they were in the process of capturing him...he admits to some of what he is accused of before speaking to a lawyer but afterwards recants those admissions...since his capture several former students of his come forward claiming things like inappropriate touching to full rape and these things go back as far as 25 years...it seems that he didn't start to kill his victims until the last 10 years.......what are we to do with this individual? You've read my suggestion(s) and if anyone has any better ones I'd love to read them.
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby Johngo4 » Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:50 am

Do what the pirates did. Drop him on an uninhabited island (we've got plenty in the pacific), give him a gun and enough rations for a week. Isolates him from society entirely, gives him a chance to survive. A tiny onetime cost for the state. If he learns to survive, fine. If not, his choice. And though we may run out of islands, it's unlikely. You only get a case like that once a year in a big country. If not, chemical castration and essential medication and mental therapy. Keep him in a secure location, take his job and sell all his assets for his victims. Also, forced community service for the rest of his life, again in a secure way. If that fails, give him the option of suicide or life in solitary.
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Re:

Postby furyrider » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:01 pm

C'mon wrote:Well for certain crimes with unquestionable proof I think it's the way to go. In fact, I think that lethal injection is too easy for some of that garbage. If anybody did anything to a loved one of mine it woud bring out the Old Testament in me. They'd be beggin' for the cops. Public stoning, flogging and hanging would be the correct approach for some.


I feel all forms of capital punishment are wrong, and personally I feel lethal injection is the worst of them all as it is the most thought out to the point of being sickening. I think you see it as the ' correct approach ' if it involved a serious crime against a family member or a friend because that's it's a natural reaction. to get revenge. but, killing another human being is wrong full stop. it just so happens that killing is surprisingly easy if you so desired.
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby C'mon » Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:53 am

Of course it's easy...cheap too! A helluva lot cheaper than feeding and housing people who aren't suitable to be allowed in our general population. I still haven't read a reasonable alternative from any of the "anti-killers". So what's the deal? We'll just look after 'em and warehouse 'em indefinately?
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby furyrider » Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:04 am

C'mon wrote:Of course it's easy...cheap too! A helluva lot cheaper than feeding and housing people who aren't suitable to be allowed in our general population. I still haven't read a reasonable alternative from any of the "anti-killers". So what's the deal? We'll just look after 'em and warehouse 'em indefinately?


so just because it's a hasle to keep people alive, you would rather kill them. hmmmmm, yes that's much better. not. the point is that it is immoral to kill another human. besides I'm sure even you would agree that innocent people have been executed. execution is not a punishment, it's a release and someone has more chance of blending back into to society if they'r alive and then they can add to the economy and so forth.
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby C'mon » Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:22 am

Many, many people have died in the name of their morality. So morality, it would appear, is in the eye of the beholder. As far as integrating these murderers, rapists and that sort of people back into society goes...you're wrong. Doesn't happen. This thread has been talking about the worst humans to walk the planet, not the vending machine bandits. Kill 'em! Kill 'em quickly too...not after 20 years of housing and feeding them. If you believe in the possibility of rehabilitation and reintegration so strongly you can feel free to open your home as a halfway house for those "poor misguided souls". Just keep 'em outta my neighbourhood.
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby furyrider » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:43 pm

C'mon wrote:Many, many people have died in the name of their morality. So morality, it would appear, is in the eye of the beholder. As far as integrating these murderers, rapists and that sort of people back into society goes...you're wrong. Doesn't happen. This thread has been talking about the worst humans to walk the planet, not the vending machine bandits. Kill 'em! Kill 'em quickly too...not after 20 years of housing and feeding them. If you believe in the possibility of rehabilitation and reintegration so strongly you can feel free to open your home as a halfway house for those "poor misguided souls". Just keep 'em outta my neighbourhood.


it's almost stupid, capital punishment doesn't improve anything. Why are we so scared? we shoud learn how to treat these people and find the most effective ways to punish them. we only kill because we can't think of anything else to do with them. there's also another element your overlooking. everyone has their own story to generalise about every single case is wron. someone could have commited crime do to an abusive childhood, therefore the peson is not toally accountable for their actions. So you would be so selfish that you would kill someone purely because you don't ' believe ' they can change? shame on you!
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby C'mon » Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:24 am

I agree Furyrider, even though you scold me :roll: , each case is as individual as the perpetrators. They ought to be considered as such. I also agree that the calibre of criminals we're discussing has something deep within that motivates them or pushes them to commit their terrible acts. My question is...why do we have to clean up afterwards? Why is it society's responsiblity to care for these people? We've decided in court that they're not fit to live openly with us. Do you truly believe that someone like Jeffrey Dahlmer (sp?) could be rehabilitated and reintegrated with society? I can't imagine.
So what we have is a person so vicious and immoral that's been captured and proven unfit. What do we do with them? Using Dahlmer as an example again...he should have had his day in court and once his dispicable acts were proven he should have been fast tracked to the chair, or the gallows, or even a guillitine. Lethal injection is too humane for some of those monsters.
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby furyrider » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:48 pm

C'mon wrote:I agree Furyrider, even though you scold me :roll: , each case is as individual as the perpetrators. They ought to be considered as such. I also agree that the calibre of criminals we're discussing has something deep within that motivates them or pushes them to commit their terrible acts. My question is...why do we have to clean up afterwards? Why is it society's responsiblity to care for these people? We've decided in court that they're not fit to live openly with us. Do you truly believe that someone like Jeffrey Dahlmer (sp?) could be rehabilitated and reintegrated with society? I can't imagine.
So what we have is a person so vicious and immoral that's been captured and proven unfit. What do we do with them? Using Dahlmer as an example again...he should have had his day in court and once his dispicable acts were proven he should have been fast tracked to the chair, or the gallows, or even a guillitine. Lethal injection is too humane for some of those monsters.


in reply to your question.

. ' clean up afterwards?' so in other words you can't be bothered? so killing them is just easy. If we get it right now, we can prevent and punish crimes effectively.

so just because' you can't imagine it, you would happily kill? So just because it deosn't seem like it can happen, that's enough evidence to suggest it can never work?

And I repeat, Lethal injection is not humane. Look up how it's carried out and you shall see how sick it is.
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby C'mon » Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:33 am

Yeah, killing them would definately be easier. More efficeint too. Bothered? Why should we be bothered? This isn't a first strike and you're out concept...I'm talking about serial offenders, repeaters. 100% guilty of vicious crimes against their fellow humans. Why the Hell would I "bother"? Kill 'em and let God sort it out...how's that for a plan? Lethal injection is far easier on them than the electric chair...yeah, they have some real fear and terror for a while before it happens and yeah, it hurts like crazy for the matter of seconds...so what? I have "looked it up"...I do know about it and understand it. Sick? Not really...I still say it's too good for them.These people deserve my compassion? Nope! Geez, all of the money spent to defend them in court and to study them and to care for them...what a collossal waste. Kill 'em and let it be seen so the next piece of crap that figures the life of a serial killer is what they want has it to think about.
I still haven't read an alternative so I assume that those who are disagreeing with me are satisfied with the way things are done now. A complete waste of money and effort in my opinion.
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