Regarding capital punishment

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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby C'mon » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:57 am

It is never morally right to kill another human being...hmmmm. :? Put the gun in your hand, put a rapist, bloodsucking murderer between you and your child or some other loved one...you've got a split second to decide...who dies? Your child? The rapist, bloodsucking murderer? It's up to you.

Deterrant? If they're already guilty a deterrant is too late...It's to stop the fuckers from doing it again. In jail or out. Deterrants are like locks...they work on honest people only. 8)
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby damostat » Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:26 am

C'mon wrote:It is never morally right to kill another human being...hmmmm. :? Put the gun in your hand, put a rapist, bloodsucking murderer between you and your child or some other loved one...you've got a split second to decide...who dies? Your child? The rapist, bloodsucking murderer? It's up to you.

Deterrant? If they're already guilty a deterrant is too late...It's to stop the fuckers from doing it again. In jail or out. Deterrants are like locks...they work on honest people only. 8)

But we have much much more than a split second here. Sure, if the situation is that drastic then fine, do it for self defense but self defense only, not because you can't be bothered to keep them in a prison! Besides, death is really the easy way out. If you keep them in a prison until either a) they are rehabilitated or b) they're too old to do anything then they will learn their lesson. I mean, sure, killing another human being can be morally right when you're in that drastic a situation but if you have the option to lock them away, do so.
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby Johngo4 » Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:51 am

Let me explain something to you all. I costs more for the state to execute someone, including all the legal procedures and investigations, than to send them to prison for life. For that sole reason, the death penalty should be abolished. These people are not worth that much state money. And also, what if the person who commited the crime wanted to make up for what he'd done? They're still more use alive than dead. When a criminal kills someone for revenge, it's murder. When the state kills, it's justice. Explain to me how this is right? And, as a detterent, the death penalty as useful as a choclate helmet. Those who commit these crimes often don't care what happens to them.
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby C'mon » Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:20 pm

Well there's a new one on me...it costs more to kill a criminal than to house, feed, cloth, guard and keep them healthy. I'm sorry, I can't believe that one. I know it costs in excess of $100,000.00 annually to keep one prisoner in maximum security. That would not include special considerations such as major health issues. So I can't imagine that if they're proven 100% guilty by eye witnesses and DNA and any other undeniable proof that it would cost anywhere near that to kill 'em. I also say that lethal injection is too good for them...how about a firing squad, hanging or the electric chair? As I've said... it's not a deterrant, it's a punishment and it's ending the possibility of that individual ever doing what they've done again. Rehibilatation does not exist in criminals that are of the calibre we're discussing. Even if it did, they're in the can for the rest of their life, so what difference does it make? At least they would know that it's coming and can repent their sins if they decide that's what they want to do....far more than they afforded their victims. Did you say "make up for what they've done" ? Are you serious? Let's picture that scenario...KILLER - "Hi Mr. and Mrs. Smith. I'm awfully sorry that I tortured your little girl, had sex with her dead body, chopped it up, ate some pieces and sent you the other pieces in the mail. I'd like to make it up to you, though...could I mow your lawn?" ... :shock: Give me a break. ...and while we're at it allow me to clarify the whole process. They've been found guilty beyond reasonable doubt and sentenced to death...they are escorted from the courtroom and hauled back to the pen. There they are put immediatly into the chair 'cause dead men don't need a last meal and a big curtain is opened. The other prisoners...the ones that aren't so bad and may actually change are assembled to witness the following...ZAP!! Yep...fry 'em. Now there's a deterrant for ya...those witnesses will forever have that image in their minds. How's that plan sit with ya?
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby damostat » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:51 am

C'mon wrote:Well there's a new one on me...it costs more to kill a criminal than to house, feed, cloth, guard and keep them healthy. I'm sorry, I can't believe that one. I know it costs in excess of $100,000.00 annually to keep one prisoner in maximum security. That would not include special considerations such as major health issues. So I can't imagine that if they're proven 100% guilty by eye witnesses and DNA and any other undeniable proof that it would cost anywhere near that to kill 'em. I also say that lethal injection is too good for them...how about a firing squad, hanging or the electric chair? As I've said... it's not a deterrant, it's a punishment and it's ending the possibility of that individual ever doing what they've done again. Rehibilatation does not exist in criminals that are of the calibre we're discussing. Even if it did, they're in the can for the rest of their life, so what difference does it make? At least they would know that it's coming and can repent their sins if they decide that's what they want to do....far more than they afforded their victims. Did you say "make up for what they've done" ? Are you serious? Let's picture that scenario...KILLER - "Hi Mr. and Mrs. Smith. I'm awfully sorry that I tortured your little girl, had sex with her dead body, chopped it up, ate some pieces and sent you the other pieces in the mail. I'd like to make it up to you, though...could I mow your lawn?" ... :shock: Give me a break. ...and while we're at it allow me to clarify the whole process. They've been found guilty beyond reasonable doubt and sentenced to death...they are escorted from the courtroom and hauled back to the pen. There they are put immediatly into the chair 'cause dead men don't need a last meal and a big curtain is opened. The other prisoners...the ones that aren't so bad and may actually change are assembled to witness the following...ZAP!! Yep...fry 'em. Now there's a deterrant for ya...those witnesses will forever have that image in their minds. How's that plan sit with ya?

You really sound sadistic to me. If you really do not believe the figures, look them up. It's not a deterrent and when someone is sentenced to death, there is generally a long wait in processing and legal fees that costs MUCH more than to just feed them crap food and give them minimal housing. As soon as the state kills an innocent man (which has happened before), they are then murderers. It's not worth it. In fact, the state are still murderers when you do it for "justice". It's bullshit!
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby Johngo4 » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:15 am

At most, it would cost the state 6 Million $ to keep a prisoner in jail, this is for 60 years.To execute, it costs the state around 2.3 Million a case. Often more. Take california for example, since 1967 it has spent over a billion on death row cases. Only 2 have been executed. Now, if they had just put all of these people in prison they would have saved at least $800,000,000. This is of course, assuming that these two people are the longest lived in history. Now, very few prisoners are kept for longer than 20 years. After that, they're either dead or on parol. And, if your not going to take this seriously, why the hell are you arguing? The number of people who have done terrible things and then tried to make up for it by pretty much giving up everything up in their lives past eating and sleeping, sometimes even those. They do a lot more than mow lawns. And what is morally right aobut revenge? It's pointless and brutal. And the ones who commit these crimes, the serial killers, the rapists, are too insane, angry or just desperate to care about wheter they are going to die or not. And add to this the fact that many death row worthy criminals have never commited a criminal act before the one that will send them to the chair. And, during my mood of righteous anger I have just discovered a study by duke university that shows it costs 2 Million more to execute a prisoner than to incarcerate him for life.

Morally, the death penalty is bullshit. Practically, its bull shit. And don't even let me get started on the spiritual side of things. Nearly all religions are against the killing of people. Thou shall not kill. (trump card)
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby Mike » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:52 am

Whoa people if we are so worried about the cost of imprisonment I believe we should not even punish someone with imprisonment for non-violent crimes. You know how many people are in prison for marijuana related charges? American taxpayers pay over $1 billion a year on people imprisoned because of marijuana, and over $8 billion on those not imprisoned but simply arrested for charges relating to marijuana because of the criminal justice system.

And anyone here who has both drank and smoked marijuana will tell you that drinking is much more destructive and dangerous than weed. When's the last time you've heard of somebody going on a violent weed binge and beating their wife and kids?

Why do we have to kill people when we can just stop incarcerating pot heads? Better yet if marijuana was legal countries could tax it and make a huge economic profit. Let's face it weed is not going anywhere.
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby C'mon » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:14 pm

Sadistic? Do you realize the calibre of human that I'm talking about? I'm talking about the ones who are predators. The ones that plan and calculate and attack innocent people and rape, torture and kill them...especially the serial offenders. There would be none of that millions of dollars of court costs...if they're proven undeniably guilty, rush 'em to the chair! Don't feed 'em, and house them for 20 years and pay for their damn lawyers...that's your "cost to kill"...fuck that.
Innocent people would not be found undeniably guilty with today's technology. And please tell me what these people have done or could do to make up for their crimes? Your bleeding hearts are hemorraging...do something to control it quickly! I'm not talking about someone who steals a car or even mugs someone...I'm talking about truly evil animals. You cannot "make up" for what they have done. They are a threat to society.The longer we prolong their disgusting lives the more it costs. Once proven undeniably guilty, kill 'em. How about public beheading? Is that a little too rough for ya?
If I'mnot being serious? You arrogant little bleeding heart! If those ones you mentioned don't care if they die, why do you? Also, I don't believe that statement, either...they are the biggest cowards. They cry, they repent, they beg and they try to offer more evidence to prolong their sentence. All of that bullshit adds to your statistical costs. Your costs are bullshit...run 'em to the chair. The way it's done now is the time and money waster...speed it up!
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby kevinp » Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:30 pm

im pretty sure in my own mind that these 'anti death penalty'fuckers live in cloud cuckoo land,i hope to god none of these bastards who take great pleasure in harming little kids ever harms one of yours,these fuckers have relenquished their rights to live when they take someone elses,i for one would see some bastard hanging from the end of a rope that hurt one of my kids,20ft of rope is cheaper than 30 years in a cushy jail,fuck em,i for one would pull the lever to the trap door,there's too many do-gooders in this world that should go to the gallows with them.
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby Mike » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:33 pm

Check this out, if we can mess up like this with today's technology, why would you ever risk killing an innocent person. You say you want to be sure that the person did it, but even if there were 20 eye witnesses that's not a one hundred percent fact. How do you know if every single one of those people is lying or not. And there's a ton of pressure on criminal investigators to deliver the rapist or murderer, sometimes they are over zealous and no one would ever know they just want someone to be guilty. Below is a recent headline in North Carolina. The reality is that maybe one person can tell you that they are sure that the person committed the crime, but then you are just taking their word for it. Why do you guys want to kill so bad.

Titan Barksdale, Staff WriterComment on this story
RALEIGH - The bologna and cheese sandwich that Glen Chapman savored Wednesday could have been his last meal.
Instead, it was his first as a free man after almost 14 years on death row.

Chapman, 40, was released from Central Prison on Wednesday after Catawba County District Attorney James Gaither Jr. dismissed murder charges against him.

Last November, Superior Court Judge Robert C. Ervin found that an investigator withheld evidence and lied in court, and that Chapman was inadequately defended by his court-appointed attorneys.

Ervin sent the case back for another trial, but Gaither, in dismissing the charges, said there was not enough evidence for a retrial.

Chapman is the seventh innocent death row prisoner in North Carolina to be released, according to the Death Penalty Information Center in Washington.

He was sentenced to death in 1994 in the slayings of Betty Jean Ramseur and Tenene Yvette Conley in Hickory. Their bodies were found in abandoned houses in August 1992. Chapman has always denied killing them.

Ervin's 186-page order said a lead investigator, Dennis Rhoney, withheld information that a key witness in the Ramseur case identified someone other than Chapman in a photo lineup. Rhoney, who worked for the Hickory Police Department, also lied during his trial testimony against Chapman, Ervin wrote.

Ervin added that a report by a forensic scientist showed that one of the victims likely died of a drug overdose, rather than by foul play.

"Everything that you can possibly imagine going wrong in a capital case went wrong," said Jessica Leaven, a lawyer who handled Chapman's case. "It's a prime example why the death penalty should be abolished."

Efforts to reach Rhoney, now a deputy in the Burke County Sheriff's Office, were unsuccessful.

The truth of testimony by Rhoney in previous trials also must be questioned, said Frank Goldsmith, another lawyer who worked on the case. Both lawyers called for an investigation into his conduct.

"I don't think it gets much worse than perjury by an officer of the law," Goldsmith said.

Chapman's appeals attorneys also argued that his trial attorneys, Thomas Portwood and Robert Adams, failed to interview several critical witnesses and were "excessive users of alcohol."

Portwood, who admitted he drank more than a pint of 80-proof rum every evening during several death penalty trials, has been challenged in court for his representation of at least two other men, one of whom was executed in 2001.

Adams told the N.C. State Bar that he drank three scotches a night but that it did not affect his trial performance, according to The Charlotte Observer. A 1998 psychiatrist's evaluation of Adams, ordered by the bar, concluded that Adams "had a drinking problem" and referred him to Alcoholics Anonymous, according to a bar discipline order.

Portwood died in 2003, and Adams could not be reached.

Chapman said he harbors no resentment toward Rhoney or the criminal justice system.

"I have no bitterness," Chapman said. "I feel better without it."

But he missed much of the growth of his two sons during his years on death row. Chapman talked with them Wednesday on a cell phone he could barely figure out how to use.

When prison officials told Chapman he was going home Wednesday, he didn't get his hopes up.

'Still shocked'

"I'm still shocked," Chapman said. "I didn't believe it until I was actually outside."

The prison jumpsuit Chapman wore was replaced by a crisp white dress shirt and black slacks. He was looking forward to relaxing Wednesday night and having steak for dinner -- a step up from the double-decker bologna and cheese sandwich he requested.
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby curly-cherry » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:12 pm

you have far too much spare time...
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby C'mon » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:44 pm

So I guess only he knows if he did it. I hope to Gawd that since he's out he didn't but there is nothing written there to prove his innocence. It's not that I want to kill or have a bloodlust but the foolishness needs to stop. Wasting billions of dollars looking after these people and paying for their defence. The only ones who win are the frickin' lawyers. Thy have the entire system set up to their benefit and thattruly disgusts me. 20 CREDIBLE eyewitnesses are enough for me, mix in some DNA evidence and a really plausible scenario and I'm good to go. Roll that bastard out to the guillitine or gallows. I mean immeadiatly after trial too...death row my ass. The row would be a single file line to "the end". Trust me, if one of those pieces of crap hurt or killed one of my loved ones they'd run to turn themselves in because if I knew conclusively who they were...they would never be dead enough. I would save the taxpayers a huge pile of money 'cause it would be dealt with. It completely baffles me that anybody could feel any different. Can you not sense what the families of the victims go through? If it were your child, your spouse, your Mother...come on. You'd turn the other cheek? You would hope that the monster gets rehilibilitated and drops by for a visit to "make it up" to you? Tell me, what could they do to "make it up"? Again, we're not talking about the ones who steal cars or write a bad cheque or even beat up their wife (as sick as that makes me)...we're talking about evil monsters that steal peoples' lives and worse. And even if the system stayed the same with all of the ridiculous expenses and "death row" and it cost 50 times to kill that piece of shit that hurt my family (hypothetical) I'd be there to watch.

You bleeding hearts are in-frickin'-credible!! Stop the hemmorage!!
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby Mike » Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:38 am

Ah my friend your first statement nullifies your argument. You see, here in the United States, you are innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby Mike » Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:52 am

And holy shit I can't believe that you can't believe that there are people in this world who do not wish to seek revenge. That's childish. You sound like one of those close minded people who don't stop to think about what's going on... you just throw your animal instincts into it; and these monsters you speak of, they're not really monsters, they are one of two things: a product of our fucked up society or they are mentally disabled and can't find a wrong in their own behavior. If the former is true, then our society must deal with them because we are ultimately responsible for their behaviors (especially people in which hatred is simple such as yourself). And if the latter is true, why would you not try to rehabilitate them? They are made up of the same material as you and I.

[/i][/i]My initial response to the loss of a loved one in a situation like this, you're right, would be sorrow and hatred to the extent that I would probably wish to kill the person that ended my loved one's life. But I believe that after some thought I would have the intelligence to understand that killing someone won't help a damn thing. I also hope that I have friends that would help me get past that stage, not friends like you egging on and instigating more pain and death.

You sound pretty intelligent C'mon, but you don't sound like you've ever been responsible for ending another human being's life before, even if they were the "bad guy." I know that it is somewhat different than you make it sound. Enough with death, I'm tired of it.
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Re: Regarding capital punishment

Postby Mike » Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:15 am

I'll tell you another God damn thing! If you're so worried about paying to keep someone alive then use your energy to argue against war, not for arguing the death penalty. Compare the costs of war and keeping someone in prison. War is a little bit sadder than murder, because in it you kill innocent people, and innocent people kill you. No one is the "bad guy", we are all people trying to be happy, Arabs, Jews, Blacks, Whites, Gays, anything you name. We've got bigger fish to fry than the American tax payer paying a meager 10 dollars a year to keep someone from being electrocuted to death.
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