Evolution vs. Creationism

So who is this God person anyway?

Re: Evolution vs. Creationism

Postby Johngo4 » Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:34 am

For goodness sake, why does everyone here blame religion? Humans are, for the most part, fundamentally dicks. Religoin isnt the cause of these wars, just the excuse. Take the crusades, If the catholic church hadn't existed europeans would probably have attacked the middle east just for nationalist or racial reasons. It was mostly just part of the "we're white, they're not and they wear funny hats" mentality. Yes the catholic church was corrupt, but really, what large organised group isn't? For the most part religions are loosely organised groups of people who worship their deity/deities in the same way. And frankly, even the organised religions are no better than any group. Take the communist regime in china, complete secular, killed hundreds of thousands, caused the deaths of tens of millions through starvation and disease. If you say religions are the cause of wars, you may as well say nations, politcial parties and associations cause them as well.

I am christian, but I also believe in evolution. I just believe that God guided it.
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Re: Evolution vs. Creationism

Postby Mike » Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:36 pm

Did that kid just say "matey"....lmfao.

So everything I've gathered from Mr. 14-year-old is that he thinks its his original idea to want peace? Grow up...literally.
Maybe you haven't heard the song "Imagine" by John Lennon, but the idea of no religion and peace are not anywhere near original (Hippies!, but not exclusive), unless you live in a box and your mommy spoon feeds you. I guess you've never heard of Locke, Voltaire, Gandhi, Descartes, Paine, Rousseau, Hume? Seems to me that if you've had even the slightest bit of history in your elementary school you would find that empiricist views are not your own. Therefor you are either a liar about your originality or you are truthful but a complete dumbass.
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Re: Evolution vs. Creationism

Postby C'mon » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:25 am

Heh,heh. That isrich! :lol: I wish that lifes problems had come onto me when I was 14 and knew everything. :lol: Read something 14 year old...you'll learn that there are very few original thoughts left. :lol: You're also very young to be so arrogant...it took me 40 years to get this arrogant. :lol:

Johngo4...You say that humans are fundamentally dicks and I agree. One thing that we can depend on is the fact that humans can and will ruin whatever they (as a race) touch...mostly. But, it seems to me, that you may confuse Christianity and religion(s). Religions have caused many, many wars throughout history. God did not create religions. They are all created by man, for man...each and every one of them. That also includes all of the non-Christian religions...manmade. The churches ran the world for hundreds of years...the Roman Catholic Church was more powerful than Royalty until recent history. Now both are basically powerless entities that exist mainly because of tradition. I think that the R.C. organization is richer, though. Religion was created as a power and money grab...period...all of 'em. Hard to believe that I, a Christian, would say that huh?

Back on topic...I think that humans have "evolved" or adapted to suit their physical environment...we still are. However, the thought that we evolved from apes is foolish. Those who believe in that theory may have apes in their family tree, but I don't. If you do, you may want to blame/credit beastiality and not evolution. :wink:
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Re: Evolution vs. Creationism

Postby Johngo4 » Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:07 am

I think this argument is fairly pointless unless we define what a religion is. If you beleive that a religion is a group of people who follow the same belief system, then I suppose it would be reasonable to say that religion can cause war. But if you beleive a relgion is just a belief system, then it can't cause war. LIke I said, it's just used as an excuse.
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Re: Evolution vs. Creationism

Postby C'mon » Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:00 pm

In my opinion, religion is an organization created by a person or persons with rules written by them to be adhered by whoever decides to follow their leadership. It is created, usually, in the name of a higher power which could include but are not limited to ; God, Ala, Buddah, Joeseph Smith Jr....or any other crackpot who declares himself a spiritual leader. Organizations that most of us refer to as "cults" are technically religions. Those who choose to follow God are called Christians...in my mind, this is not a religion. The divisions/organizations within Christianity are the religions such as; Roman Catholic, Presbyterian, Baptist and so on. I always get a kick out of it when folks ask, "Are you religious?" , of course my answer is,"No, but I do believe in God.".

The Bible is the book followed and studied by the religions within Christianity. There are a few versions of the book which are nothing more than interpretations by men and translated interpretations by men. That makes it very difficult for me to follow 100%. I believe that it is based on the word of God, but where man has had a hand in it's writing how can we believe that the result hasn't been influenced? If a particuar version contains things that suit a person as an individual I see no reason why that person should not follow it. Just know that it has been interpreted and influenced by man. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's not entirely bad, but don't try to tell me that each and every word is the word of God. Ten people can read something and interpret ten different meanings from it. Understand what I'm saying?
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Re: Evolution vs. Creationism

Postby Johngo4 » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:34 am

I beleive, that in the bible, there are some parts that should be taken literally, some that should be interpreted, some that should be ignored, and some that should be dismissed as really massive drug trips (the book of revalation, for instance). For this reason, other christians, atehists and even agnostics think I have screwed beliefs :?
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Re: Evolution vs. Creationism

Postby C'mon » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:30 pm

Well, whatever you think...screwed up or not, you could rewrite the Bible as you want it to be. Call it your interpretation, convince a bunch of people to follow (and pay) you as a prophet and there ya go....you have started your very own religion. That is exactly why I am non-denomonational...if it's going to be interpreted I may as well do it myself.
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Re: Evolution vs. Creationism

Postby Mike » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:21 pm

Good point.
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Re: Evolution vs. Creationism

Postby Monkeyjuice4 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:51 am

Come on people, we've WAY deviated from that guy's question.

What is the biological reasoning for conscience?

Well let's think about what conscience does to us. It stops us from doing things that are 'wrong'. But wrong just means socially unacceptable, or at least morally so. So really, our conscience stops us from doing stuff that will make people look at us badly, and hence is a protective mechanism designed to keep an individual within the boundaries of acceptance.

But that begs the question, why feel guilt then? Because I don't know about you, but when I feel guilty about something I sure ain't gonna be doing it any time soon. Whereas if I can tell myself its all well and good, and absolve my own guilt, then I'll happily continue with the action. So guilt is like a fail safe behind conscience, because if it can't stop you, hopefully guilt will.

Someone else raised the question of all emotions' validity. But it can all be related back to the protective model of action. Sadness is a physical expression of a feeling of disempowerment. And happiness a representation of belonging. It's all about letting our tribe/family/whatever it was 'way back when' know how we're feeling.

I'm sure there'll be people who would love to say empathy disregards self or the classic 'A mother will love her daughter beyond anything' stuff, but in reality its all about 'me me me' at the core of humanity.

And believe me, if there is a God somewhere up there (and I'm definately not convinced) He or She definately wouldn't give a stuff about something as irrelevant and futile as a person.
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Re: Evolution vs. Creationism

Postby tudodude » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:48 pm

The more and more I learn about the history of this planet and the universe, the harder it becomes to understand why such obvious links from plant to plant, animal to animal, a wonderful curve of a planeting evolving ad its enhabitants evolvong too.
I just don't see any proof of creationism being a realistic option anymore. These people are educated and smart people too who can't see a pretty easy to identify evolutionary link!!!
The power of social conditioning huh
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Re: Evolution vs. Creationism

Postby Gaamblore » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:35 am

Evolution does have evidence But it gives no answer to how the very first cell came to be. But im not going to get into that...If you want to learn the problems about that then go read the arguments about the big bang... Anyway Creationism Does make alot of sense and they have alot of very good arguments. Then again god couldve made evolution happen and there would be no way we could know about it. But i dont think God would have lied. Either God created the world in 6 days less than 20,000 or 10,000 years ago and there is something wrong with carbon dating. Or God started early and decided to make a bang And then put everything in to place as time went along. Those to me are the only two options because the big bang could not have happened by itself for no reason.

I say everything that can be obviously be proven is true. But for everything that cannot be proven to be absolutely true or false leave to god and faith.

I also think both sides should be taught in school because peoples minds need to be widened and people should know both sides before making a decision.
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Re: Evolution vs. Creationism

Postby Alexander » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:51 am

Mike wrote:Mostly just a question I keep coming back to when I sit and wonder about life and existence. I can't seem to reason out an evolutionary purpose for the human conscience. First I thought maybe we need it to help protect certain things in our environment that are crucial to our survival such as ourselves, plants, animal, etc., but then I wondered why would I feel guilty if I stole my neighbor's property? Wouldn't I be helping myself? My survival? Then I reasoned that it must be a product of our learned behavior, that we were raised with certain beliefs. But that still leaves a big hole in this idea. Why would we still have a conscience if it could be swayed by outside influence that would hurt us materialistically? This has recently changed my agnosticism to a slight belief in a god. These are all my own ideas I promise. And my family is religious and I did go to church when I was younger, but I'm not here defending the Biblical God, I just want to know what others think about my idea.



There are does in intelligent Design who make such claims that the brain is wired towards science. And many in astrology, physics and mathematics claim that there are too many coincidences in their fields to not believe in God. Darwinists make up theories such has multiple universes which have no material for even making up a theory but thats another story.


But on a purely Darwinian context, there is no contradiction in my opinion about having a conscious and feeling guilt in taking away the property of others.

The Human brain is by far the most complex biological structure known, and definitely most interested. No one really knows what caused intelligence to grow so out of proportion to the rest of the animals. Theories go from mere protein consumption (very over-simplistic and incomplete) To cooking, warfare, Jaw size and sexual selection (I recommend reading the mating mind)

My argument will be that Humans are social creatures. We need both a level of individuality to be able to see the world in original ways and develop innovation within our group and cooperation to be able to grow into more complex groups eventually developing culture and passed down knowledge.

It would be very counter productive if everyone inside the group where taking away the resources from each other within the group. Just like in a socialist society the incentive to create new stuff (be it technology, knowledge to mere production) is eliminated since all the stuff is taken away by the government neither would you have seen any significant development. Just like there is some evidence to suggest a babies face (be it human or animals) somehow makes us melt and not attack the annoying little thing or men having erections when they see a women and not a dog (I hope so!) and boys regardless of the feminist theory of "gender is a social construct" will start fighting with eachother while girls sit and talk there verywell could be a development for feeling like an asshole when you screw someone inside your tribe.


Has I say inside your tribe its obvious throw history that we have had no problem fucking the other guys on the side of the hill. Tribalism and including RACISM is UNIVERSAL. The Japanese felt no guilt in killing Chinese, the Chinese felt no guilt in enslaving Mongolians, European Aristocrats would piss on the peons faces and Greeks only felt it immoral if Greeks where enslaved, etc. So what is the argument rightnow to eliminate racism? "We are all brothers in one world" We all belong to the same tribe.

From the Navajo to the Japanese to the European slave trader they have seen people of other races has subhuman. But once the idea that they where Human (Significantly in the 1500's by Catholic priests that not only europeans had a soul) treating others in a horrible way became immoral. There where one of us.


Robbing hood is a folk hero who takes away the income from one tribe, the aristocratic elite, and gives it to another tribe, the poor. And yet this is not seen immoral is it? Most people see themselves on the poor tribe.

We have recently felt guilty for animal torture because "They have emotions like us and feel pain" Its become immoral to torture animals because WE CAN IDENTIFY WITH THEM. They can feel like us....

But we have yet to identify with zombies or robots dont we? So movies portray their mass killings without any moral dilemma.

So dont loose your agnosticism just yet. It might make more sense if looked in a group level on not on purely individual. (The selfish gene touches on this).
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Re: Evolution vs. Creationism

Postby Kirstie N. » Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:35 am

In no way whatsoever do I believe in Evolution. And "Creationism" does not exist...it's "Creation". Christianity, is not a religion, it's a relationship with Christ. The thought that humans "evolved" from other species is beyond ridiculous. If that was the case, in order for more humans to be created, there would still be the evolution process going on today. In no way, was this world/universe created by random chance, God's hand was in it. Also, scientists don't have all of the "evidence" that evolution occurred. Man did not evolve. He was created suddenly with an eternal soul. We all, thanks to God’s intervention in the form of Jesus, are free to choose to obey his commandments or to allow our hereditary evil to take over. The Bible, gives description from beginning to end of how the universe was created and about God's creation of man. I was raised in a strong Christian household, and am a strong Christian myself. And in no way do I try to force my beliefs down anyone's throat. I don't appreciate people trying to "teach" me about evolution, but I also don't get mad about it for the fact that I know it's not true. I believe that people who believe in evolution and get mad about others telling them about Christianity, know that they're wrong for believing the "theory of evolution" but don't want to admit it.
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Re: Evolution vs. Creationism

Postby ChrisNyssen » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:57 am

You don't believe in Evolution and you know "for a fact" that it is wrong?

Ok, you've got stuff to learn. Evolution isn't "chance" because it explains an extremely long process which is not a chance process, but rather a steep slope of evolution.

No, us Darwinians don't believe in creationism at all you fool. Go and read the bible and realise why most of it isn't fit for this world.
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Re: Evolution vs. Creationism

Postby Kris » Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:41 pm

Please people stop being stupid! everyone thinks that evolution is of self benefit, but there are numerous amounts of examples in the world of collective benefit. Ants are easily some of the most successful animals in the world and one of the biggest reasons for this is that they work incredibly well in a collective. What does this have to do with the topic? human beings are social animals, that means that we evolved in a communal sense, so why do you feel guilty when you steel because we have a evolutionary need to benefit the overall gene pool and not just ourselves. Our conscience is a evolutionary benefit because it benefits the population as a whole which is what evolution actually is (learn the real meanings people). ie) take our neanderthal ancestors, now take an individual of a neanderthal group (Bob perhaps) obviously the more food he has the better off Bob is when it comes to survival. But if he hoarded all the food then the rest of the group starves, thus Bob's clan dies out and so inevitably Bob's genes die out (no one left to mate with). But now take Lenard's clan he happens to share out food among the group, thus they all eat and he is now better off because Berta is still alive and so Lenard reproduces!

and for anyone who doesn't know "survival of the fittest"is bullshit! Darwin didn't propose that the best survive just that the SUFFICIENT survive!
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